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It seems my recent blog posting about the Great American Wall was just a bit too much for some members of R2P. It appears that some of the debaters did more than just debate the subject - they started a little mud slinging. Actually, it got to being more than just a little and the admins decided it was in the best interest of the R2P community to stop the debate. I can understand that part and have no issue with it. The only part that I don't like is that the blog entry and ALL the replies were removed. I've exchanged a few emails with Tim about this and we both know where we each stand on the issue. He and Todd were doing what they thought was best for the community. He also admitted they may have gone overboard by removing the blog entry and all the replies. I concur. Will this bring the blog entry back? And the replies that were civil? Posts that many of us took much time to think out and write? Probably not. I don't know if they wholesale deleted all of it or if they simply made a database change so they would not appear on the site. Tim did say my original blog entry was not the issue or reason why it was removed. It actually garnered some good debate, and only 1 email to myself (in which the sender said he hears more than enough of that kind of crap at work and he didn't want to read it at R2P). Simple answer - don't read it. The problem was the few spoiling the whole lot. How often have we been up against that? I can understand removing something if it is obviously racist, or pornographic, or hateful. There are rules to this effect here at R2P - From the R2P Terms of Service:
I, for one, have not written anything of the sort. My blog entries have been my personal views of certain events, and they have stirred up some good debates. The problem came from some of the replies by other members of R2P, and that is something we should all be ashamed of. Regardless, this brings up my next question for all of us to civilly debate - Censorship - when should it be okay and when not? Is removing the entire thread from first blog entry to last reply the answer? Or is removing only the questionable replies? Should the questionable posts of a few bring down an entire blog entry? Is this going to turn into a situation where one or two bad apples ruin the fun for everyone? I'm not looking to change any policy, just putting out questions for discussion. I'm first. I think if a post or a reply is in violation of the R2P policies than that post should be either 1) edited of content by the admins, and noted as such, or 2) removed from the site with a replacement comment explaining why. I don't like the idea of posts just being wholesale deleted without any word about why. I think the person who posted the questionable content should be made aware of the situation and asked to 1) calm down, rethink their reply and repost a civil reply or 2) be asked to not take part in anymore posts to the R2P site for some given period of time, else lose their membership. There is no wrong opinion, only different opinions. I've gone on long enough, now it's your turn... (lets try to keep it civil) |
I will jump in on this one, as promised Chip :-) We, Todd and I (as Race2Play), will put the well being of the community as a whole, ahead of an individual. We do this every day in our races when a single (or multiple) people get disconnected and the server is not restarted to retrieve them. The same applies to content posted in this community. Your blogs are yours. You are responsible for their content, not R2P. You could say you "own" them and that would not be an incorrect statement. You have given R2P a license to display/publish that content, nothing more. However, this does not mean we have to display it. R2P can choose what content we wish to publish. Who defines what is in violation of our TOS? We do, plain and simple. You would not go to a neighbors house and curse like a drunken sailor to his children would you? Is your neighbor censoring you? No, it is just basic ethics and morals, and if you were to violate his definition of those ethics or morals, you would be shown the door. The same applies at Race2Play. We define if you have over-stepped our boundaries. This is not "censorship" by any means. Censorship: The term "censorship" is often used ... to signify a belief that a group controlling certain information is using this control improperly or for its own benefit, or preventing others from accessing information that should be made readily accessible (Wikipedia) Race2Play is not holding any information from anyone about the topic of that post. We are not preventing you from speaking about any subject you may chose, we just are not allowing it to be displayed here... in OUR house. You are free to speak on what ever subject you wish... elsewhere. We are not preventing you access to any information either, as you can find the same information in other locations on the Internet. This is simply not censorship. What some may consider an over-reaction, we consider it to be a sure-fire way to prevent that discussion from re-sparking. Yes, the original post could have been kept and even locked, but the injury to the "other side" of the argument is implied. It was removed in it's entirety for the sake of the entire multi-national community that R2P is. Im OK with that decision and any heat it may bring and will do it again if the need arises. Consider that we have Germans, Russians, Italians, Americans, Mexicans, Spanish, British, Polish, and 40+ other countries all here racing together as a unified group. Lets not forget, many of our fathers and grand-fathers were killing each other 60 years ago in WW2. We are united here, no racial or country boundaries... the only "RACE" here is what we do... on the track. | ||
In a community like this I have no problem with my posts being censored. This is a community for sim racers, to get together and enjoy and discuss a passion we all enjoy. The last thing I want to do when I come to the r2p website is read about someone else's political views, their problems with other peoples views / actions unrelated to real racing or sim racing. There are plenty of other places to discuss those type of issues, places where everyone knows what they are getting into when they go there. And of course any other place you go is most likely going to censor stuff to a certain extent. The only way your going to get a place where you can say what you want is buy getting your own domain name, setting up your own forum and blog software on it, and ranting away. | ||
Nice thing about blogs is they are your soapbox - you can say whatever you want. If nobody reads, no big deal. If everybody reads, great. If you don't like what someone has to say in their blog just don't read it. Blogs are "forums" of sorts as well ... with the parent topic being YOU. Your blog is your soapbox, your journal, or even your magazine on whatever it is you feel like reporting. That quote is from R2P, the Guides page. Read it, there's a link at the bottom of just about every page. I read only the blogs that look interesting to me, and just skip the others. If someone writes something I don't like, I won't know because I didn't read their blog, so I won't be all hot and bothered by it, and have to cry to mommy that I was offended. As I wrote above, I don't have a problem with censorship. I think, though, that when something is censored there should be something in it's place to let us know that something someone wrote was not appropriate. I don't care if it's just the work 'bleep', but don't just wipe out a whole conversation because someone got offended by something someone else wrote. There may be other posts that are valid and shouldn't be removed. If you're offended by a certain book do you expect the library to throw it out so nobody can read it? I certainly hope not. If there was nothing ever written or posted here except racing info it would become a rather boring place in a hurry. Variety is the spice of life. | ||
Jimmy wrote - "The only way your going to get a place where you can say what you want is buy getting your own domain name, setting up your own forum and blog software on it, and ranting away." And that is not 100% true either. If you read the terms of the hosting company, you are limited there as well. Many do not allow adult content or torrents for obvious reasons. Most all still have conditions in place that they, as your host/provider, can remove your entire site or parts of it without notice, reason, or permission. A few quotes from the host I use for TM.net: - Subscribers of IX Web Hosting’s services are prohibited from storing or posting adult content, or {even} links to adult content.
These are all standard TOS found at any web hosting company. They do not differ greatly from what the R2P TOS states. The fact is, we are all held to the standards, ethics, and morals of others when in their "house" or using their services. Expecting anything less then that is a recipe for frustration and angst. Chip, I know you feel that we wronged you in some way today. I hope you understand that it was not meant as anything against *you* personally. It was to maintain the integrity of a friendly and welcoming environment for *all* people. Surely, no one will argue that the post in question was either friendly or welcoming... | ||
Did I miss something? | ||
Racism: A condition that compels a typically sane, well-meaning, contributing member of society to waste hours and hours in the search for the perfect online race.
. . . . . . . . . . Admit it.... That was funny. | ||
:) | ||
@ David, as long as you googled it first and didn't ask how to find it :P :):) | ||
I love when you guys can put a nice spin on things.
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