Bill Stephens's blog
Chopping
08:09 PM on Jan 02, 2007

OK, what I mean is this, say I was on the inside & beside someone, passing them going into the corner. They chop down on me & come across the nose of my car. I have two choices, continue the pass & most likly spin them or brake hard & give the postion back. I had this happen to me twice in a race & I did not want to spin the guy, so I backed off, but watching on the replay, I was not really at fault if i had spun him. Now maybe he did not really see me, in that case maybe it was not intentional. But, if he did know I was there & did it on purpose, that would really piss me off & if I spun him, I would not feel bad. I don't believe in blocking or chopping like that. I believe it is OK to defend the line, but blocking can lead to wrecking & we all hate that. Just would like to know where everyone stands on this issue. :) :)




Posted by Jason Quinn at 02:49 AM on Jan 03, 2007
Comment #1

If someone does that to me and I'm far enough along side that they should know I'm there I just steer into the bump so I don't spin, chances are it won't spin them either. If I'm not that far along I back off and let them swerve across the track (since they expected some resistance). Either way is entertaining for me, unless they actually impede my progress. If someone does that I'm more likely to start racing them the way they are racing me.

Generally I do more giving than taking. I will drive someone rougher if I don't think they are being fair, but I don't intentionally wreck people...some times I wish I could/would.

Jason

Posted by Nick Johnston at 04:37 AM on Jan 03, 2007
Comment #2

It always depends on the situation in my opinion. If you are up to their door, id say thats enough in most cases. Most of the time, if you are there, and you know they are going to chop down, give the accelerator a stab, and get a nose on them.

Posted by Jeff Stibling at 08:53 AM on Jan 03, 2007
Comment #3

Be right or wrong, if you are making the pass, make it stick or back out of it, make sure i can see your hood or back off, if i am doing the passing i will make sure the being passed knows i am there by taking the corner entry away from him there by slowing us both down to avoid contact or worse...crash damage, yes this maybe too conservative but...in an enduro there is give and take and if you are being raced clean and fair...its best to realize you have been beat @ that corner and attempt to get it back some other lap. JMO.

OTOH, there is some great sportsmanship displayed on R2P and this shouldn't be an issue, and if it is...PM Tim/Race Control with the replay position of the race and let the steward handle it.

Posted by Jerry Chen at 12:11 PM on Jan 03, 2007
Comment #4

One of the biggest problems with these games is that our monitors don't provide peripheral vision. Even Tim with his ridiculous TH2G setup still can't replicate the "feel" of another car on your door handle.

But as a slow ass who frequently gets passed, one thing I notice a lot is that there are lots of fast guys who know how to make clean passes, but have no clue as to how to get passed. I see it happen a lot, guy A is clearly inside of guy B in the braking zone, to the point where guy B can no longer see him in his mirrors. Yet, guy B still turn into the apex aggressively as if no one is there. Then, when both guys spin out, guy B complains about guy A being too aggressive, when guy B was at fault because he didn't adjust his line through the corner.

Posted by Tim McArthur at 12:15 PM on Jan 03, 2007
Comment #5

I think I only need to quote the policy regarding this;

[begin quote]
Right to the Line
The driver in front has the right to choose any line, so long as not to be considered blocking. The driver attempting to make a pass shall have the right to the line when their front wheel is beside the door of the other vehicle.
[end quote]

If someone "chops" you once you have your wheels at their door, then they spun themselves out. Yes it is hard to see this on a PC, (in all reality it is no easier in a real car with a helmet on), so everyone should assume the worst and give room to the inside car. If they dont, well again, it's the outside guys that usually pays the price.

Posted by Joe DiPino at 01:39 PM on Jan 03, 2007
Comment #6

i understand the theory about blocking. is there any visual example you can threw on here?

at one of F3 races at monza, jeff and i were flat out side by side going into parabolica. he was outside and i was inside. i entered a little in front of him simply because i had a shorter geometric line to the entry whereas his was obviously longer. at mid corner, i drifted a little up because i suck, i carried alot of speed, and the corner itself is weird. from mid corner to exit my right side wheels were even w/ the center line of his car. i pulled down some to get back to my usual line - my mid corner speed had pushed me up some - and some rubbing b/n my rear wheels and his front wheels happened. is this a block?

Posted by Steve Smith at 02:06 PM on Jan 03, 2007
Comment #7

Joe,

Did Jeff go flying off into the woods with you continuing on unscathed? If so, then I would say that it was a PERFECT pass on your part. ;-)

Seriously, based on what have described, I would say that you were just fine in your positioning of your car on the track. Sounds like good, hard, close racing. If I were Jeff at that time (which I NEVER want to be Jeff), I would have probably let you pass if I thought you were going to drift up in the corner, and then just draft and repass your slow ass on the upcoming main straight. Easy as pie. :-)

Posted by Tim McArthur at 02:06 PM on Jan 03, 2007
Comment #8

No Joe,

A block would have been an intentional move to prevent someone from taking their own line.

An example would be two cars drafting down a long straight. The car behind moves to the right to make a pass and the car in front also moves to the right to prevent the other car from getting beside. This is not yet a block though as the lead car has the right to any line he wants. It becomes a block when the following car re-changes his line to go to the left around the car and the lead car also changes his line to prevent the following car from getting up beside.

A lead car is allowed to alter his line once (at his own risk), but not twice. This is fairly universal among all auto racing.

Posted by Bill Stephens at 05:30 PM on Jan 03, 2007
Comment #9

I will either try to put up pics or maybe a clip of the replay showing what happened.

Posted by Darin Boyd at 05:49 PM on Jan 03, 2007
Comment #10

If you want to see blocking d/l the replay from this event
http://www.race2play.com/schedule/show_event/326
I think its lap 9 and starts at about :50 mark, Comrad Kirill or whoever it is moves to the left, then the right, then the left again, the last of which is the outside of the corner entrance and directly into the path of which I had started to come by.
By most real race standards you are allowed to make one change of direction entering a corner to avoid being passed but once you have you are to stay committed to that new line.

If you want to see a stupid chop move look at what I did to Tim about midway through the 1st stint of last nights GTC BMW race at Brno :P. I honestly didn't know how far up the side of me he was so I took my normal line, fortunately he was ready for me and I didn't pay the normal price I would have by being on the outside. It was stupid on my part none the less and I would have been better off giving the space and heading for the apex on that next right. So we all have our moments :P

To address the original question I would say I agree mostly with what has been said. The rule quoted I think is a bit of a stretch, I don't see how getting halfway up the side of someone entitles you to the right of way, but agree if you have someone that far up inside you and you come down on them you are going to loose.
I would only add that what Nick said means a lot an that is it "depends on the situation". One basic thing that has frustrated me is when you reel a guy in by 2-3 seconds a lap and he fights you tooth and nail for the pass. There is a lot to be said for knowing when you are the slower driver and saving yourself and the other guy a lot of grief and just getting the heck out of the way. I know if some mistake or strategy put someone behind me and they are taking that kind of time out of me I would just open the door, and have. Now if its last lap and you have held the position for the whole race then ok fight like hell, but otherwise it really doesn't make much sense.


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