|Posted by Eduardo Lorente at 10:27 AM on May 20, 2012||Post #1|
I've attached below a link to the proposed carset we'll use for the upcoming 1973-75 GT and Touring championship. I've also attached a JPG of my test work, I still need to re-check the effect of pitstops on a 75 minute or 90 minute race, but I'll post those later today.
** All testing was performed on the Anderstorp circuit.
** For each car, I did multiple sessions (approx. 1 hour of work on each car). I tested at half-full tanks, and recorded the best three laps from the hour long test.
** The average of the best 3 laps is the basis for the "Estimated Race Time" calculation.
*** Edited 7/1/2012 - removed skin pack.
|Posted by Eduardo Lorente at 11:57 AM on May 20, 2012||Post #2|
Three important points I forgot to make here:
#1. You should keep in mind that the test numbers are biased towards my preference in cars. So for example, your style may "fit" better with the Corvette whereas I was quicker in the smaller, lighter 3.2L BMW CSL.
#2. The other thing to note, is that my Race Estimate calculations "magnify" my mistakes. By that I mean, maybe I could have been a half second faster in the Corvette, but the half second mistake I made on my hot lap is now "baked" into my math for entire race.
#3. The final carset (Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette, BMW CSL) is based on the GT and Touring classes that raced at the 1973-75 Le Mans. I excluded the Pantera and Ford Capri due to their high performance being outside of "core group".
So in other words, my testing is not infallible, and there's a degree of bias in the numbers. But for now, I'm satisfied that we have a group of cars that are close-enough in performance.
|Posted by Eduardo Lorente at 12:02 PM on Jul 01, 2012||Post #3|
I just wanted to resurrect this post from May on how I determined the car set in case anyone is curious.
In post #1, there's a link to table where I showed the results for various default and add-on cars at Anderstorp circuit.
In post #2, I've included a few "caveats" or "qualifiers" on possible errors in my testing.
I feel OK about my initial test results as compared to yesterday's Sebring race. I'm not surprised it was a Porsche-parade, the BMW's did represent themselves well (especially Andy in the 3.2L BMW) and Mike Miller in the 'Vette did a great job finishing in the top 3 considering in the aggregate the Corvette is probably the slowest.
|Posted by Jon Uyan at 01:06 AM on Jul 02, 2012||Post #4|
Thanks Ed, You did a very good job in weeding out the faster and slower cars, these three are definitely on par with each other. Too bad Ferrari did not work out, is there any chance we are going to include it in the regular championship and any other add on's?.
|Posted by Mike Miller at 09:17 AM on Jul 02, 2012||Post #5|
I don't think we'll see the Vette again. It is much harder to drive than the others and it is a lame duck when a pit stop is required.
The panty may be an option. The only way to make a big, heavy and powerful car work compared to a light and nimble one is it must be sufficiently quicker than the lighter car to make up the lost time in the pit lane due to taking on additional fuel and the need to change tires.
Ross and I are clearly on the same pace in the same car. If the Porsche is just as fast as the Vette at a track where the Vette is in its element (long straights) then it will never have a chance to win a race. It will only get worse at Hockenheim and Spa.
|Posted by Ross McGregor at 10:00 AM on Jul 02, 2012||Post #6|
How about the Porsche 906 as an alternative?
|Posted by Mike Miller at 10:34 AM on Jul 02, 2012||Post #7|
I haven't done any testing lately, but my gut feeling tells me it will be quicker than the 911 and it will still be light on it's feet like the 911. If memory serves me right, that car is easier to drive quickly than the 911 also.
Having a competitive alternative to a light and nimble car makes race strategy interesting when that car is a big power bruiser.
|Posted by Eduardo Lorente at 12:24 PM on Jul 02, 2012||Post #8|
+1 to Mike's comments. I'd rather invest time testing cars so that drivers need to make choices and compromises between three or more closely matched cars.
That's essentially what my league has been doing with our Race07/GTR-Evo championships, and I'd really like to bring that philosophy into GT Legends too. Even if it means we have to ban one or two cars to get something close to parity.
In 20/20 hindsight maybe the 'Vette would have been even closer if we had banned the bigger, badder 3.5L BMW and 3.0L RSR ... it certainly would've been more historically accurate to the 1973 Le Mans.
@ Jon - I just emailed the R2P Official with a similar question. I'll keep you guys updated once I get a response, and follow up with a survey.
I've already started "connecting the dots" with default and add-on cars to come up with some interesting match ups. Plus, with 18 drivers, I would feel comfortable doing a multi-class series.
|Posted by Jon Uyan at 02:51 PM on Jul 02, 2012||Post #9|
I understand you're going through a lot of time consuming testing procedures, let us know if we can help in any way.
|Posted by Eduardo Lorente at 03:09 PM on Jul 02, 2012||Post #10|
Thanks Jon I definitely will :) More data = better decision.
|Posted by Mike Miller at 08:37 AM on Jul 03, 2012||Post #11|
I'd suggest a single class series. Driver counts have a funny way of thinning out over time for some inexplicable reason.
|Posted by Neil Gault at 06:25 PM on Jul 03, 2012||Post #12|
you could just stick with your car set but limit us as to how often we can drive each car, that way it keeps it interesting and varied.
|Posted by Eduardo Lorente at 10:21 AM on Jul 05, 2012||Post #13|
So I'm happy to say we got the A-OK from the R2P official, so long as we don't "over do it" and scare away the growing GTL community.
Re: Single make series
Let's get everyone on board as to which cars or era, and do some testing. Although I prefer multiple cars, I'm open to a single make series if we can't find comparable cars.
We've got some time before we need to make that decision. I'll start drafting a survey shortly and get something up within the next day or two.
|Posted by Jon Uyan at 03:31 AM on Jul 06, 2012||Post #14|
You kind of lost me there Ed, do we have the ok for Ferrari 365 or for something else? And I thought we were going to continue with the official GT Championship after these "tryout" races.! You just went through a lot of testing for this series.?
|Posted by Eduardo Lorente at 02:32 PM on Jul 06, 2012||Post #15|
Regarding the Ferrari 365 GTB ...
The R2P Officials position on it, is that unless we can attest to the authenticity of the car (i.e. did the historix group make it themsleves, copy it with the proper permission, or was it taken from another mod without the proper permissions), his preference is that we don't use it.
That's unfortunate since (based on the testing I did earlier) the Ferrari was the most comparable car to the Porsche RSR. Until I can get some additional information on the Ferrari, it can't be used here.
Regarding other GTL mods ...
My experience is that after a couple months, guys are generally ready for something new. So I thought until we can get more information on the Ferrari 365, we can try something different to keep the community going. I'm happy to be overruled though :D I'll add the current batch of cars to the survey.