Maybe it's just me, but in about 90% of the cases (in GTR2, rFactor, Race07) with only a few exceptions, softer springs seems to be where I end up for my setup.

Even for tracks that are whipping butter smooth where one should benefit from a stiffer spring (especially in high speed sweepers), stiff = slower. Definitely no Viagra sponsors on my car.

There are some exceptions like WTC, but for the most part my setups always seem to come out soft. Maybe I'm just not getting the bump/rebound shock settings right in combination with stiffer springs but for the life of me I can't get a stiff spring package to be faster.

Any of you setup Guru's on the same page? or am I just out to lunch?

I'm no guru, but I tend to love stiff setups. Soft setups are good when i plan on being on the curbs a lot. Stiff just feels more in control to me, until i hit a bump.

i'd like to know this as well Rob.

I thought a soft was the way to go, I found myself 1-second off pace, then I went with a stiffer set-up and I was still 1-second off pace. I hope this helps.

Jeff, are you trying to say that springs/shocks settings don't make a difference in lap times? Just a weight transfer rate issue and more for driving style?

About the only adjustment I make to teh rear springs is to make sure they are set at the softest setting. And more and more I am finding my front springs more on the soft side. The exception to this rule is with F1.

When you are adding spring rate, are you changing the camber? Stiffer spring = less - camber.

In the 550, my set-ups were soft to mid-range, in Fabcar I started off really soft and worked my way up stiffer, the car is more responsive to my skill level and I did pick up some time but so did the front guys ;-(, in CCWS I am all over the place, and my shock settings are relative to the spring pressures, sometimes Ill be as soft as possible and others the opposite, then you fight ride height issues, after chasing a certain person for the better part of 3-seasons in CCWS, its the driver. In CCWS, if you crank in to much camber you will find your tires will be in the yellow in 6-laps, its all a crap shoot most of the time, my camber varies only by 0.5 between soft and firm.

All I can think of Rob is that the softest springs available in these games aren't that soft - just not as hard as the hardest springs.

There's no way you'd run the softest springs you can on a real race track, right? Just soft enough to handle the bumpiness.

Soft = larger camber change = less overall tire patch contact = bad.

Soft = higher static ride height required to prevent bottoming out = less underbody downforce = bad.

Soft = higher static ride height required = higher center of gravity = more weight transfer = good and bad, but overall bad IMO.

And in a sim, ride comfort is not an issue unless you've got one of those motion simulators.

Soft should provide a lower CG. Softer usually requires more camber (pending sway bars). But the goal is to maintain the largest possible contact patch to the tires at all times. Stiffer springs/shocks gives the car a disconnected feel (sports/touring cars) in the sims.

For aero cars like F1 and CCWS I must admit, I'm very clueless on setup but once again I seem to go with a softer setup.

But for say FabCars, OMG did I have to go A LOT softer than what the default setups -- can barely drive the FabCar on even moderatly stiff suspension.

Jeff, removing driver from the equation since I'm talking about setups relative to the same driver (aka me).

Even Tim's setup tool suggest go soft. About the only time I go stiff or stiffer is when I'm intentionally trying to get some loss of traction for the purpose of rear end rotation.

Is it a limitation of the sim physics? I know the real racing I've done with cars that have a suspension (in the traditional sense), softer springs never worked even on the open wheel cars (Russell series) they were pretty stiff.

No complaints, just more curious if everyone else is finding themselves going more to a soft setup in most situations (even on very smooth tracks).

It isnt that softer equates to faster, actually very much the opposite... in one sense of the word.

Soft vs Stiff, there really is no different in the amount of grip the wheel will get. If a tire can hold 2g of later grip, it will still hold 2g of later grip no matter the spring rate. It is much like the dampers, and the *timing* of that grip.

Softer allows the grip to transition to maximum at a slower rate. More importantly, it allows it to EXCEED maximum at a slower rate, (aka, forgiving). Stiff will still give you the same amount of grip but will EXCEED the grip with less notice.

The plus side of running stiffer is that some of the initial grip is pre-loaded into the tire. The springs are pressing the wheel down into the racing surface offering more early grip (aka, more responsive). Another plus is that you can run the car lower to the ground and gain additional aero grip for the under-body of the car. Of course, that only matters for those cars that gain more aero grip over the mechanical grip "lost" (Lost = exceeding maximum grip earlier) by running stiffer springs.

The limitations of our simulations make this fairly easy choice. Softer = better, thought here are always a few exceptions. I tend to run as soft as I can, but if you download some of my rF setups you will see me running max springs (ZR, FT, V8) as that is what worked best in my setup development testing. You just have to tinker and find which works best for your car/driver combo