USA FB: Trois-Rivieres

I had fun for lets say about 1/2 a lap in the 1st. lap.... Sean Staples, you don't brake on the "50" mark while doing 117 MPH in 6th. gear!!!.... There's no way you'll stop the car before the turn, unless there's a tire barrier or another car....Unfortunately I was the car that stopped you... :P You ruined my race completely! :(.... I was in a good Top 10 after I q'd in 15th. place...

Please be careful next time while braking, remember that tires and brakes are cold and it takes about a couple of laps to get them up to temp. ;)

Have a good night and see you next time! Oh! BTW, Congratulations to the Top 3 !

Best!
OG \o/

Well, my race was deiceded in the first few turns, like i expected. I knew Wyatt was a lot faster than me, so i knew if i had a chance at winning, i would have to pass him right away and try to hold him up the rest of the way. I wa able to hold the outside in turn 1, but in turn 2 Wyatt gave me no room and pushed me into the wall. I tried to hold the car, but he kept on coming down on me pinching my nose. Anyway, i got back going in last, way behind. So the rest of the race was just a climb back to the top. I made it back to 4th, not bad.

I'm sorry to everyone that got caught up in the mess. After Mosport, i though he would give me room, but i was mistaken.

It seemed that I should be able to run at about 3rd or 4th in the race, based on times seen around. And managed to Qualify 3rd.

A rear shunt into Kevin Inkman later in Qualifying ended that session for me, but was my fault for allowing X amount extra early braking at the end of the main straight braking zone but really needing 2 times X as it turned out! lol Sorry for that Kevin!!

Then at the race start there was a big surprise bonus when David and Wyatt got into each other and spun together and were left stuck to fall down the field!!
So that put me into 1st place!

I could just outrun Tom, who was then 2nd, so I knew that part was under control. But seeing Wyatt lapped me in the Euro race, I expected to be seeing him at some stage later in the race. So I needed to run the best laps possible to have some time up my sleeve for that.

The bigger worry was going to be time wastage once I caught back markers. And that is exactly what happened all too often.
Every time I got to 3.5 to 4sec lead area on Tom, I encountered traffic that depleted it back to 1sec or even less! Then off I went again to open the gap...all to be erased again. Numerous times.
That was eating up tons of total time, which could be very important later in the race when Wyatt and David might be coming back to the front end!

Then one lap where I saw a stricken car ahead and tried to work out what they were going to do (move aside?). But that didn't go too well and I hit them and damaged my front wing and front right suspension. Slight damage hardly bothers the car, but it dropped the lap times by 0.3sec approx.
And then more hold-ups at in-opportune times....

I could still keep Tom at bay but with about 6 laps to go Wyatt came into the picture on my timing LCD. And seeing he was running almost 2 secs a lap faster, it was going to be touch and go to hold 1st! Right down to just seconds!

MORE holdups, and time was eaten away rapidly. And then with 1.3laps to go I clipped the armco and it ripped off my front wing! DOH.
I decided to give up then and lock in 2nd. Wyatt was gaining fast and would have been battling with me down the first long straight approx. and I was not sure what a damaged wing does, so I didn't want to risk crashing out!!
So I gave up right away to get him past and out of my hair.

After about 6 turns of various types I worked out the car drove totally fine with no front wing! So I hadn't needed to slow down at all anyway. But no use finding that out now! LOL
If I had raced on, Wyatt would have passed me about mid lap on that last lap anyway. So it didn't really matter.
And 2nd was better than the expected 3rd!!
(though could easily have been 1st if not for even ONE of the hold-ups more. 1 less hold up...2secs more leeway to hold out fine then!).

david how did i not give you enough room.. you tried way too hard to out brake me for some reason in the second corner and you couldnt take a normal line through the corner because of this so you couldnt turn and pushed into my car.

If I would have put you into the wall there wouldn't have been atleast a car space in between my car and the wall... that makes no sense.

I think you should watch the replay buddy, I was holding my line. Watch your cars trajectory as you turn in. also, my brakes never locked either. Besides, my car is loose in the entry of that turn, not tight, I can hold those very tight lines until the exit where the car begins to push. I've run side by side through there before with guys just as fast as you, i know it can be done.

Also, of course both drivers never see it the same way. It was a racing deal.

My cars "trajectory" wasn't even close to the inside wall. You did have enough room because i wasnt even on the racing line when you hit me. I shouldnt have to give up half the track just because you broke a bit late and push wide. Thats a problem the person passing should consider first.

Well technically - if you want to race 'fair' - you have no rights to track space unless you are X amount overlapping a car ahead. That gets a bit grey...but I would recommend at least HALF a car length before you even begin to consider you have any rights, and really you would want 3/4 to a full side by side overlap before it is clearly even rights to the track.

Add to that a common 'special case' where someone 'dive bombs' to GET that overlap, which means the car that was cleanly ahead probably never even knows that diving car is going to do such a thing! That makes it all very dangerous! So the 'dive bombing' car always has to be the one totally responsible for anything that happens from there on.

This David and Wyatt case is right on the fringe of 'dive bombing'...partially so, partially not so. It wasn't so much a death defying late braking case, but did have some important results of that move....

Seeing Wyatt was in clear 'lead' by the braking zone and turn-in point - "proper racing path", David's move becomes a 'dive bomb'. But only partially so as I mentioned.
And I am sure he knew that, and intended to do what that requires...HOLD THE INSIDE EDGE LINE. TIGHT.
That is the ONLY rights you have in such a case...one car width and 2 inches!! LOL
Even if the other car FORCES you to stay that edge for 20metres around and after the corner! You are boxed in! Though some sensible time frame, according to corner and track layout, would set the real limit they hold you in. But technically they can do it as long as they like really.

A good leading car driver will ALLOW such room when he sees such a case unfolding - which is exactly what Wyatt did. One car width, and no more...and that is all he has to do! The 'dive bomber' is responsible for everything else - anything HE is causing by such a move.

So the replay shows Wyatt did everything perfecty right as is required. And David was probably AIMING to do so, but just could not hold that tight inner line required.
The 'move initiator' did not meet his required limits.

But if David believed he had a RIGHT to run out off the inside edge EVER, then he is mistaken. Once cars are side by side the ONLY right you have - either of you - is ONE CAR WIDTH of track on YOUR side. And all middle ground is free to whoever can get it first and safely. And in this case the inital leading car was on that track path the whole way.
And a car 'pushing in' - often achieved via dive bombing - has even less rights, and more responsibilites, in the situation.

It is actually a good driving strategy to FORCE the dive bombing car to hold a very tight line which will SLOW them down and remove their 'half ill gotten' advantage. GIVE them more room, and they will quite likely win the battle there instead! So Wyatt did exactly what the best response is.

Personally, I would never even plan for a pass that needed such a late section of braking and relies on the other car giving up his rights, just to prevent a possible incident!
It is dangerous and unfair. But some really good drivers CAN do it successfully, and safely....IF they get every single little aspect dead right! Which I wouldn't count on in my own case! hehe (thus not to do it).

I would consider that a "1st lap punt". Turn 2 of a 21 lap race?? When rules warn to NOT cause unfair interactions....
That means a decision was made to push those limits, and it failed....= penalty.

It COULD have ended up a great pass!
But it didn't....
The common "hero, to zero' result. Which David is NOT known for at all really!! (err, not by me anyway). So I can see how it was just a very high demand move, that went amiss....

You also have to consider how such a move can destroy 15 other cars races very easily at such a track as Trois!! When you are one of the front end cars!
That is just another reason to not even consider the idea when the whole field is in such close quarters!
So it didn't look to be such a good idea to me.

And then even if it worked, they would be side by side down into an even more dangerous turn 3!! Which just adds a ton more danger to the whole sequence! (Again, more important seeing it was coming off the starting grid in a tightly packed lap 1 field!).

It LOOKS like it could have been a Racing Incident....but it wasn't. It was very close to the line of just being one too. But just the WAY David attacked and then the car path of David's running too wide off that tight inner edge changes it all.

Congrats to the winners.

Not so good for me tonight. Qualy'ed a lowly 18th, finished 18th, surprisingly enough. I have a couple bumps into the wall, a short pit to fix the damage, and another later on, followed by a spin and a head-on hit to a wall. Pit again, only this time it was an incredible 303 seconds! That's like, what, 5 minutes? Terrible pit stop, that was. But I went on and finished. Coming around I saw the time on the car on position ahead of me was coming down real fast so I knew he must've been in the pit. I'm only 5 seconds from moving up one position when I cross the line and get the checkered flag. Shoot, so close to one more position. Tough track with these cars, lots of people spinning and bouncing off the walls.

duplicate post

I just watched at again, and we were pretty much side by side at the point of contact, so that is why the punting has not been used here (yet?). I see it as i got to the racing line first, as i had already taken that line, and thus it mine to use. I was following the yellow line around the turn, so i could not of gone much if any lower. also, to me he braked early and left the inside wide open, which is why i attempted the move in the first place. I can see why one can think my car was pushing, as i watched it from Wyatt's car and that is certainly what it looked like from that perspective. but if you watch the way my car is following the inside yellow line, you will see that my line is steady and unchanged until contact. It's the old slaming the door thing. I think i surprised him as to how well i could hold my speed and run that tight of a line. My car had not even started hinting at a push yet, as if it was, i would not of spun when contact was made, i would of went straight. all i can say is if i was persented the same oppotunity again, i would take it again and I know Wyatt would of tried the same thing on me.